Analysed dialogue (excerpt, 10 messages)
LearnerHow do you solve this?
AIHere, look at it from a frame moving with the basketball. The tennis ball approaches at speed 2v. Since the basketball is heavy enough, it can be treated as a moving wall. The tennis ball reflects off it and ends up at 2v upward relative to the basketball.
Returning to the speed seen from the ground, the basketball's own upward speed v is added, giving
2v+v=\boxed{3v}
Height risen is proportional to the square of the speed, so the height risen from the point of collision is
\frac{(3v)^2}{2g}=9h
If the bottom of the tennis ball is at about d at the moment of collision, the height of its bottom at the top is d+9h. Ignoring the size of the balls, it rises to 9 times the drop height.
LearnerSo we ignore the time taken to reverse during the collision, and any energy loss?
AIYes. In this problem we treat the collision time as negligible and the energy loss in the collision as zero.
Specifically, these are the idealisations:
- The collision with the floor and the subsequent collision between the balls are treated as instantaneous and sequential.
- Deformation during the collision and energy loss to heat and sound are ignored.
- The basketball is heavy enough that its velocity barely changes when it collides with the tennis ball.
LearnerDoes the problem statement give a reason for that?
AIOn the other hand, that the collision time is zero, and that the two collisions happen one after the other, is not stated. Those are idealisations made in the solution earlier. “Elastic” does not by itself imply a collision time of zero.
So “no loss” is a condition of the problem, while “instantaneous, sequential collisions” is an assumption on the solution side. That distinction should have been made clear earlier.
LearnerWhat happens to the basketball's motion after the collision?
AIIt hands energy to the tennis ball, and its upward speed becomes slightly smaller. It then slows under gravity, reaches its highest point and falls.
Let the basketball's mass be M and the tennis ball's m, with velocities just before the collision of v upward and v downward respectively. The basketball's velocity after an elastic collision is
V=\frac{M-3m}{M+m}v
=v-\frac{4m}{M+m}v
(taking upward as positive).
In this problem M\gg m, so the slowdown is slight and we treat it as still about v upward. But the velocity is not entirely unchanged. The energy lost through this slight slowdown is what passes to the tennis ball.
LearnerSo this uses conservation of momentum?
AIYes. For the collision between the balls, we use conservation of momentum and the elastic-collision condition.
Taking upward as positive, with velocities before the collision of v for the basketball and -v for the tennis ball, and V,u afterwards,
from conservation of momentum,
Mv-mv=MV+mu
In an elastic collision the relative speed of approach equals the relative speed of separation, so
u-V=2v
Solving these two equations,
V=\frac{M-3m}{M+m}v,\qquad
u=\frac{3M-m}{M+m}v
If M\gg m, then V\approx v,\ u\approx3v.
The earlier explanation of “treating it as a moving wall” is a shortcut to this result using relative velocity. Conservation of momentum alone does not fix the velocities after the collision; the elastic-collision condition is also needed.
David Morin, Harvard University, Problem of the Week 1 (2002-09-16), first half. Our own summary, not a reproduction of the original text or figure. The analysed object is a learner–AI dialogue about this problem (excerpt of 10 messages). · Source (original PDF)